Gold & Silver Forum - Here comes gun control

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Here comes gun control - under the radar

Concerning the Blair-Holt proposed legislation. Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun.

This bill was introduced on Feb.. 24. This bill will become public knowledge 30 days after it is voted into law. This is an amendment to
the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the Finance Committee can pass this without the Senate voting on it at all.

The full text of the proposed amendment is on the U.S. Senate homepage, http://www.senate.gov//

You can find the bill by doing a search on Google by the bill number, SB-2099.

You know who to call; I strongly suggest you do. Please send a copy of this e-mail to every gun owner you know.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

Congress is now starting on the firearms confiscation bill. If it passes, gun owners will become criminals if you don't fully comply.

It has started.

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale
Act of 2009.

Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because the government is trying to fly it under the radar.

To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of
2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:

It is registered -You are fingerprinted -You supply a current Driver's License -You supply yourSocial Security # -You will submit to a physical
& mental evaluation at any time of their choosing -Each update change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail. -There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18. -They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more
people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in your family pass this along.

This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.

This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.

If you take my gun, only the criminal will have one to use against me. HR 45 only makes me/us less safe.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45

Please send this to EVERYONE in you address book!!!

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

Quote:

HR 45

This has been beaten to death on every gun board. HR45 doesn't have the slightest chance of ever passing. Do a search on some gun boards.

Gregg

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

Gregg,
YOU BETTER LOOK CLOSER.

SB 2099 will be PASSED out of the Finance Committe and it will NEVER be voted on by ANYONE.

It will just be an addition to the IRS law. Because hey, they are just 'adjusting' the form you fill out to PAY YOUR TAXES.

AND HR 45? Won't pass? Dude, where were you when 99% of EVERYONE wrote, called, emailed their politicians against the FIRST STIMULUS BILL. Yeah, they didn't pass that either.

Then kindly tell me WHY all thos politico's are discussing the SECOND STIMULUS BILL?

This is NOT my first time. I've been beating this drum for YEARS. And here we are and STILL people think that 'they wouldn't dare'.

EXCUSE ME?

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1855318)

:452:

:111: :cry1:

Bunch of Bull Hocky..:biggrin:

SB-2099 - Bill Requiring Federal Tax on Guns

Take a grain of truth, sprinkle with false and misleading statements, add a heaping dollop of paranoia, and what do you have?

Description: Email rumor
Circulating since: Sep. 2000
Status: Outdated / False

Email example contributed by a reader, Sep. 18, 2000:
Gun owners beware!
Back Door Bill (SB-2099)
Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2000 1040 federal tax Form all guns that you have or own. It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun. This bill was introduced on Feb. 24. This bill will become public knowledge 30 days after it is voted into law. This is an amendment to the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the Finance Committee can pass this without the Senate voting on it at all.
The full text of the proposed amendment is on the U.S. Senate homepage: http://www.senate.gov/. You can find the bill by doing a search by the bill number. (SB-2099) You know who to call; I strongly suggest you do. Please send a copy of this e-mail to every gun owner you know to help STOP this bill!!

PLEASE NOTE: This is an old rumor dating back to September 2000 (see analysis and update below). No such bill was introduced in 2009.

Analysis: As of this writing (September 2000), Senate Bill 2099 (S. 2099) does exist, but the legislation introduced by Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island on February 24 has little in common with the description above.

Email: "Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2000 1040 federal tax Form all guns that you have or own." No, it won't. What the bill would require if it becomes law is the registration of all handguns. Its title is: "The Gun Registration and Safety Act of 2000." There is indeed a provision for a tax on all registered weapons, but it has nothing to do with your federal income tax forms and everything to do with establishing a national database of handgun owners.
Email: "This bill will become public knowledge 30 days after it is voted into law." Nonsense. It has been public knowledge ever since its introduction. Gun rights groups such as the National Rifle Association have been monitoring its progress (or lack thereof) closely and have referenced it in legislative alerts.
Email: "This is an amendment to the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the Finance Committee can pass this without the Senate voting on it at all." Poppycock. The law would involve a revision of the Internal Revenue Act, yes, but this bill has to go through standard Senate protocols before it can be passed. Besides, didn't a previous sentence just say it would become public knowledge only after it is "voted into law?"
Email: "Please send a copy of this e-mail to every gun owner you know to help STOP this bill!!" By all means protest this bill, or support it, if you feel moved either way. But be aware that nobody � including its main sponsor � expects the unpopular proposal to survive committee, let alone pass both houses of Congress. Even the National Rifle Association rates S. 2099 a low priority, having stated as recently as August 25, 2000: "While NRA opposes this legislation, there is no real threat of it passing at this time. Please continue to focus your energy on pending legislation in the U.S. House, and especially, in the U.S. Senate, that poses immediate threats to our freedoms."

Machiavellian schemes

Conspiracy theories play well on the Internet and have a time-honored place in the debate over gun control in the United States. A significant number of Second Amendment defenders not only argue but seem to sincerely believe that the only real reason gun control laws exist is to pave the way to a totalitarian state. Within this world view it makes sense to believe that Machiavellian schemes are afoot; that anti-gun forces seek to bypass the rule of law to pass covert legislation of which the populace will only become aware when it's too late. The rumor under discussion fits right into this paradigm, more than making up for what it lacks in truth value with high drama verging on hysteria. In under a month of circulation, the email has already prompted hundreds of queries to Congressional offices from concerned but misled citizens across the U.S. If the author(s) of the email intended to stir up a fuss, they have accomplished their mission.
Lest anyone seek to justify the spread of misinformation by arguing that it's still good for the gun-rights cause because it rouses people to action, I hasten to point out that it has also roused the opposing side. In fact, GunRegistration.org, an association dedicated to enacting registration laws, now flaunts a color-coded critique of the fallacious email on its website and is using it to drum up support for the very bill it was designed to quash.
Like the chain letters say: "What goes around comes around."
2009 update:

With the "SB-2099" rumors circulating again in the wake of the 2008 election, the National Rifle Assocation released the following informational alert in May 2009:

Clearing Up the Rumors: The Truth About The �Gun Tax Bill�

Friday, May 29, 2009

In the last few weeks, NRA-ILA has received hundreds of e-mails warning us about �SB-2099,� a bill that would supposedly require you to report all your guns on your income tax return every April 15.

Like many rumors, there�s just a grain of truth to this one. Someone�s recycling an old alert, which wasn�t even very accurate when it was new.

There actually was a U.S. Senate bill with that number that would have taxed handguns�nine years ago. It was introduced by anti-gun Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.), and it would have included handguns under the National Firearms Act�s tax and registration scheme. This has nothing to do with anyone�s Form 1040, of course.

Fortunately, S. 2099 disappeared without any action by the Senate, back when Bill Clinton was still in the White House. We reported about it back then, just as we report about new anti-gun bills every week. Now, it�s time for gun owners to drop this old distraction and focus on the real threats at hand.

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

This is what NRA-ILA has to say on this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NRA ILA
Clearing Up the Rumors: The Truth About The �Gun Tax Bill�

Friday, May 29, 2009

In the last few weeks, NRA-ILA has received hundreds of e-mails warning us about �SB-2099,� a bill that would supposedly require you to report all your guns on your income tax return every April 15.

Like many rumors, there�s just a grain of truth to this one. Someone�s recycling an old alert, which wasn�t even very accurate when it was new.

There actually was a U.S. Senate bill with that number that would have taxed handguns�nine years ago. It was introduced by anti-gun Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.), and it would have included handguns under the National Firearms Act�s tax and registration scheme. This has nothing to do with anyone�s Form 1040, of course.

Fortunately, S. 2099 disappeared without any action by the Senate, back when Bill Clinton was still in the White House. We reported about it back then, just as we report about new anti-gun bills every week. Now, it�s time for gun owners to drop this old distraction and focus on the real threats at hand.

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

There is no such bill number. Senate bills are "S" not SB. This is a hoax.

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

One can never be too careful in times like these

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

It was a bill introduced in 2000, not 2009, and never made it out of committee. I would not be surprised however to discover the anti's started this alert in hopes of getting us to deluge our elected officials with emails making all of us look like "the boy who cried wolf". If we needlessly hammer our elected officials with false alarms like this when a real alarm comes they will tend to ignore it.

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

Damn man, I was so scared after reading this thread. I almost did something as drastic as the last time I read a thread of Wallew's. Last time I threw out all of my 9mm firearms since he said they can't stop even a 7 year old girl scout.

Maybe a decade after this was introduced it will finally pass.

Fail OP. :thumb.aspx:

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

Quote:

Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1855614)

Damn man, I was so scared after reading this thread. I almost did something as drastic as the last time I read a thread of Wallew's. Last time I threw out all of my 9mm firearms since he said they can't stop even a 7 year old girl scout.

Maybe a decade after this was introduced it will finally pass.

Fail OP. :thumb.aspx:

Sorry to hear that.

Regarding the 9 mm this article explains it nicely. From a newsletter at: http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/index.asp

Quote:

GABE'S CALIBER CHOICE

I get asked what I carry alot. Recently we have gotten into quite a few discussions about my choice of calibers as well as why. Specially when they hear that it is a 9mm. So here goes --

1). 9mm holds more ammo and more ammo is a definite asset in a gunfight. I had a student that was attacked by three guys and his 1911 barely had enough. Another bad guy and he would have been screwed.

2). With modern ammo there is virtually no difference in performance in the typical CCW loads (9mm, 40, 45).

3). Ammo commonality and magazine commonality are a big issue. If you carry a 50 Auto +P+ and your dainty wife carries a mere 9mm you cannot support each other in the way that would be best.

4). Anyone who believes in the reliability of One Shot Stops with a pistol is an idiot that has never seen any action outside his daydreams.

Look gents, if it makes you feel better to carry a 45, do it. If you think that extra millimeter of size will help, then carry a 45. If you think you'd feel just fine at Mumbai with your 1911/45, then cool. Drive on. Its not my business to convice you otherwise.

Me? I have seen lots of people shot to be able to say this.

ALL HANDGUN CALIBERS ARE UNPREDICTABLE.

I have seen guys get shot with just about everything and nothing will work every time. I know of a guy shot in the chest with a shotgun slug and who not only survived but kept fighting. The ONLY sure way, outside of a clean brain shot, and that is still in question, is to multiply the damage. How do we do that? by lots and lots of holes....hopefully in chest and face.

One of my contacts in South America has a score of 47...many of those with a Glock 17 with Military FMJ. He prevailed by being generous with his trigger and accurate in his shooting. Good enough for me. For me, its a 9mm Glock 17 with alot of Corbon DPX rounds.

Modern Technique schools created a cult of the 1911/45 and believe that it would work 19 times out of 20. Yet, Fairbairn, a man who was operational in the same general era as Cooper, states that one man he knew emptied his 45 into a thug whom he had to club into unconsciousness with the empty pistol after he kept fighting. So much for legendary stopping power.

That is not to say the 45 is worthless, as it is certainly not. If I was limited by foolish laws to 10 rounds or less, or to FMJ ammo, I might opt for such a pistol, but I think the lack of capacity is a serious limitation.

I investigated an attempted suicide once where a man shot himself in the head with a 1911. He lived and walked out of the ER. What does that prove? Nothing other than the 1911/45 is NOT the death ray excalibur its cultists would have us all assume.

I was also present in an entry where a drug dealer was kiled with one shot from a Sig P226/9mm +P+ 115 gr JHP. The man fell before the Point Man could hit him again. What does that prove? That the 9mm is not the POS, or the "45 set on stun" MT people like to call it.

For perspective I also saw several gang killings with 22 pistols. No lack of stopping power there.

In my educated and experienced opinion, ALL handgun calibers will do about the same things in flesh. I have had ER docs tell me directly that it is impossible to tell what caliber a bullet is in the ER by the damage it does. We have info of the same things happening with just about every caliber out there. Chuck Taylor told me once of a Viet Cong who got his entire shoulder blown off by a 50 BMG that kept charging until he bled out. So again IMHO, the arguement of the Power Of The Pistol is simply a silly idea.

We carry them for convenience and not for power. The secret to dropping the adversary is not the caliber, it is the volume and the placement. Period.

So carry the biggest weapon you can control. That does not mean caliber. It means weapon size. And that includes capacity. For some guys with big hands it may mean a Glock 21, or a double stack Para Ordnance. For me, both of those pistols have an umanageable girth. I cannot shoot them as well as a Glock 17/22. If those who advocate them can, then I support their choice 100%.

I have a friend named Pierre. he is a big man with big hands and can shoot a Desert Eagle as well as I can my Glock 17. It would be foolish for me to force him to carry a Glock 17 and equally so for him to tell me that only his D.E. was suitable for combat.

Choose based on shootability - ignore the caliber...can you manage the weapon's size in your hand, in daily carry? Then choose on capacity. More ammo is more better. You will NOT be dropping one man with one shot. It will be taking more. One man, no big deal. Two men, maybe not a big deal. Three men and your seven shots begin looking bad. Four men and you will be forced to reload. But not with a high capacity weapon. Caliber is the last consideration to me.

Anything in 9mm, 40 S&W, 357 Sig, 45 ACP, 38 Sp. will work about the same. So CHOOSE WHAT YOU LIKE. As I said, mine is a Glock 17 with three magazines of Corbon DPX (and a couple of happy sticks thrown in).
__________________
Gabe Suarez

One Source Tactical
Suarez International USA
Christian Warrior Ministries

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

OMG,
You are quoting GABE SUAREZ??

:111::36_1_32v::36_1_30:

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1856137)

OMG,
You are quoting GABE SUAREZ??

Whats the scoop on him????

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

I thought Gabe was a stand up Guy. Is there something I should know?

Thanks

E-A

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

You guys always seem to miss it.

NOTHING WRONG WITH SUAREZ.

It's just the last time I checked, most people don't fire hundres of rounds a month. They don't teach OTHER PEOPLE how to shoot. They don't LIVE at the range like Mr. Suarez does.

So for Gabe to say he carry's a nine, well jeez, he could probably kill you with a look, and definitely with a .22 caliber.

But the problem is MOST PEOPLE don't LIVE at the range. Nor do they TEACH PEOPLE how to shoot.

MOST PEOPLE, even those die hard members of the gun culture, are lucky to get to the range once a month. If they are lucky they shoot a hundred or three hundred rounds, spend an hour or two and call it a day (week, month, year)...

But, unlike Mr. Suarez, if you aren't out there ALL THE TIME shooting, training, etc you can't depend on the smaller caliber to cause a hit on a bad guy to make them go down. HELL, even Mr. Suarez could have that problem, but given his penchance for shot placement, I doubt it. But stranger things have happened.

But WAY too many folks read that either 9mm or 45 acp is IT. Hell, it's NOT it. Especially if you don't practice, practice, practice and then train with a few people as a group and then practice some more.

Even the guys who are the pointy end of the stick, the guys who practice firing weapons (all kinds of weapons) for a living use 9mm (Spec For, Seals, G9, Mossad, etc). But they also PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. And when they are completely worn out, they go back and do it again. Because you never know when your ONE SHOT is going to make a difference between YOU LIVE AND YOU DIE.

I have a choice. Just as I choose to NOT shoot a .223 caliber for a MBR, I choose to NOT shoot 9mm for a handgun caliber. I practice with all sorts of rounds, but nine just isn't one of them.

I did just find the Winchester Ranger 9mm 147 grn bonded hollow point (think Black Talon, only not black luballoy on the bullet) and it has intrigued me. For the first time, it's a moderate weight bullet zipping down range fairly quickly (heavier than the 7.62x25 but without the two-five's special talents). But I am still not going to put my life on the line with a nine. It's a risk I'M NOT WILLING TO TAKE.

-------------

On to the rest of the story.

For all you who say that gun control will NEVER happen. Yeah, because it's NEVER happened before (when you could no longer buy a handgun magazine over 10 rounds unless you were LEO or had special permission). Like the LAST TIME the dems had control of everything. Because they LEARNED their lesson last time.:sarc:

And the dems will NEVER try and pass socialized medicine, because they never tried before, right? :sarc:

Geez, how dense can you be? The socialist play book says 'get it done' and then if you don't get r done the first time you just stop trying? YEAH, RIGHT. Check page 47 of their play book.

Expect socialized health care, gun control AND the failure of the economy (not necessarily in that order) some time in the next eight months or so. I am personally expecting it sooner. But TIME WILL TELL, yes?

How about we revisit this one around January 2010 and see what things are like once ALL the cards on the table are face up? Then we WILL KNOW who was right and who wasn't.

Of course, we could always let the IRANIANS use all their EURO'S from selling oil and not taking dollars through their oil bourse to lead the way, yes? :sarc:

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

If it's just a "paranoid theory" then why the hell is it even a bill in the first place?

I recognize that anybody can suggest any bill, but the fact of the matter remains - THIS IS AN ACTIVE PROPOSED BILL.

Calling us paranoid makes you look foolish. The proof is right in front of your face. No no, go ahead, kick up your feet and trust your representative to protect you....

Re: Here comes gun control - under the radar

Can you write off the losses on your taxes if say you lost all your guns in some sort of maritime accident?:biggrin: